Divisions - Discussion/Questions....

SpecialOne

@ado-hackovic said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

@specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

Can you give specific reasons for this?

Requested by users to have one single ranking and not split in 4 ranking positions, since they are the same user
Confuse for new users to understand the process and reduce support workload with constant questions why points for ranking doesn't match (users don't search for answers or read, they just ask)
On the technical side, old ranking system is becoming way too heavy for engines with the increase of number of users (keep in mind that every user have up to 4 entries on MP ranking system)
.....
....

As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

MPs ranking is based on last 6 months, older MPs don't have big influence, so a lot of users reached TOP 100 in 6 months

Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

It will be way more visible than before that they cheat, but number of cheaters won't change a lot, but if we notice changes it will be on the other direction (despite the complaints here, we've locked quite some managers already looking at ranking, we just don't do it on a daily basis)

This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

(I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;

There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;

The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern

Idea of this ranking is that you have a bigger progression when you start and smaller when you're at top.
I'm not saying this is perfect, but it's not as bad as you point (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues):

Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.
Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

xXSpeedKill

@specialone

In short you are saying that we are not important !!! A long-time customer doesn't matter !! they really need to study consumer behavior and loyalty more ...

most important is a player who enters, plays for 2 months and gives up ...

xXSpeedKill

There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.

In other words ... you want to change the ranking by people who are not interested in the ranking ... and whoever is really interested and demonstrates their vision on this subject does not matter

You are eliminating the identity of the game

Márcio Girilim Santos

@specialone Thank you for your response. This time you give us a real answer.

@specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

you can't have everything

Until now, the medal ranking did not bother us because we had the option of working for the ranking of coach points. The moment they decide to remove the ranking coach points they remove us the option of choice and force those who want to rise in the ranking to give up competitions, give up to play against opponents who challenge us. And instead of that to start playing in leagues against inactive or inexperienced coaches just for the search of medals. This kind of choose has not longevity...
Why should i keep playing a game that not recognize the time i have spent on the game?
Why does a player play the same game over the years?
For fun? No. Eventually it will tire.
A player needs a strong motivation to keep him stuck to the game.
How a player gets motivation playing a game? Challenging himself. How? Playing against the best coachs. And if he succeeds by being awarded!!!

This is so simple!

Restimat

@specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

Very interesting and legit answers to Ado, thanks ! (Still waiting for the answer on my post though, but no urge of course )

(I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues) :

Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)

You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.

On one side, are you saying it's possible to be top ranked (not only level 9 or 10) on osm while playing very competitive leagues ?

Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

And on the other side, you say we cannot have both a high ranking and play competitive ?
Thus do you acknowledge the fact that the medals ranking has LITTLE link with the levels of managers, or am I wrong?

Ado Hackovic

@specialone Thanks for your answer. Although I disagree, I respect your view of this situation. I think one ranking could have been made for manager points. The slot that has the most mp, put it in the ranking. I even suggested that one ranking be introduced, but someone from OSM Staff replied to me as what will happen to managers who play on one or two slots.
That is also my question

otman347891

@restimat he tries to find the answers he is going to say on google

IAleksandarI

@SpecialOne Many things need to be improved with Medals, but I need to fokus on one big, and that's -medals for loses with clubs with low objective
If I take club with objective 16, and loss aggainst club with objective 1, I can't lose 1000+ medals, it's fair let's say 50, 60..
if you understand what i mean

And,
update is your thing, i mean, not for players to work on, but if you put something in the game, it need's to be near perfection, not at the begining
All of this is cirkus, update this, delete that, remove this, remove that

xXSpeedKill

From the moment that the top 1 of the medal ranking is clearly a person who cheats this is all said about the medal system

xXSpeedKill

@specialone

And another thing ... when you make changes you are very vague ... in the update of the positions they say it is close but do not give a date for a person to organize ... try to be objective and give specific days

rodsalatta

This game is getting worse with each passing day.

Just bad decisions like this one.

I would like to know who was the genius who thought this would be good.

Many goods players are tired of this kind of decision and are stopping with this game.

They just think about money and forget to think about people.

Bad and dark times are coming, the solution will be find other game.

xXSpeedKill

@ialeksandari said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

@SpecialOne Many things need to be improved with Medals, but I need to fokus on one big, and that's -medals for loses with clubs with low objective
If I take club with objective 16, and loss aggainst club with objective 1, I can't lose 1000+ medals, it's fair let's say 50, 60..
if you understand what i mean

And,
update is your thing, i mean, not for players to work on, but if you put something in the game, it need's to be near perfection, not at the begining
All of this is cirkus, update this, delete that, remove this, remove that

exactly ... it is a system that has many flaws and that is clearly far from being optimized and want to implement this "against everything and against everyone"

and more ... osm contrary to what they say is supported by long-term players who spend money every month in the game ... not by those who play 1 or 2 months and give up ... are the players that you ( staff) devalue that support the game

HBlauzahn

@specialone You say members of support don't have the time to watch out for the cheats every day.
Then please form a task force now in the course of the changeover to the medals that will seriously deal with finding and blocking these cheaters. When the task force has done its job, only then will you get a fair ranking. If you don't do that, you are supporting these cheaters.
We as managers who love and intensively play this game feel like the real cheats.

jeffro davies

@specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

About survey... Just because you didn't got it, don't remember, it doesn't mean we didn't do it.

As you like to state quite often Gamebasics runs a business, so they want their business to succeed and we're not interested on destroy OSM, so every step/change we do requires some studies.

The survey we're referring on the update announcement was made end of November/early December and users had to check announcements on app and click there to access it.

There were 3 questions in there if I'm not mistaken (something like this):

Do you think Divisions & Medals are a good indicator of the best managers

What you think we can improve on Medal system

If we replace Manager points by Medals, what feature you would like to be involved in (and we listed 3/4 things)

So one survey means you destroy years of work by loads of top managers that’s played for years? Why not share the results with all the manager names? You make out that people voted for this change and I find it very hard to believe they would, especially the top 10k managers (if going by manager points)

Just like timers and BC compensation in app battles. Survey this and that making out the majority votes for them, then nobody on the forums agrees apart from the odd person. You should see what you’re doing is wrong with how active the forums go with decisions like this.

I’ve tagged at least 5-10 times over the last 4-5 months on the forums, PMd you about BC compensation. If there is a date set many times for another survey. Ignored every single time, why? If people vote for these things like you say, why not share the results and do a clear survey with very active crews, people and crews that have a lot of battlepoints (you know the main people that pay to play app battles not just random people that probably don’t put money into the game or play for a month and leave)

Then when you ask the main community, people on the forums for help to make something better then maybe they will. You expect people to help you when you ignore questions that are not that hard to answer. @SpecialOne you wanna ignore my questions again?

HP1Life

@specialone

The main issue here is the devaluation of the ranking of management points. In my opinion it is very inconsistent that a ranking that was already fixed in the game and that several coaches dreamed of it being replaced by a new ranking. I am sure that the vast majority of players who are present here in the forum want the two rankings to be maintained, so that all coaches can have their needs and goals met.

Márcio Girilim Santos

@hblauzahn said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

@specialone You say members of support don't have the time to watch out for the cheats every day.
Then please form a task force now in the course of the changeover to the medals that will seriously deal with finding and blocking these cheaters. When the task force has done its job, only then will you get a fair ranking. If you don't do that, you are supporting these cheaters.
We as managers who love and intensively play this game feel like the real cheats.

The problem is not only the cheaters but also the system adopted in this ranking. Make the four slots counting to the ranking it's a problem to all good players

Restimat

Of course guys, but I have the feeling sure that 95% of the people would act exactly the same if they were at the place of GB ^^
We shouldn't be fools, past is past and there's a main huge silent community who talks by playing, and GB knows what they like and how to enlarge its community. Not pretty sure that having a limited amount of loyal followers is better and more profitable than talking to masses in our digital era... Anyway, that's just my own perception.

In any case, let's focus on change since it's what is required for the game to work and make profit, but at least change it as best as possible ! Let's rise the constructive issues, give correct feedbacks. Some things might be changed, but some will not.
Medals system is great...only if well done, and crowds of people are rightly criticizing some parts of it -not just raging.

Only with a healthy discussion would we be able, perhaps, to gain some positive changes and a fairer working system !

HP1Life

@jeffro-davies

I very much agree with what you say.

I don't understand how all the changes made by the OSM cause so much confusion in the forums, since according to the staffs, surveys are done for everything. There is a lack of communication from staffs and organizers, a lack of commitment to make these researches reach all of us. Since, as we have seen in recent months, the vast majority of players on this forum do not agree with the decisions made by GB.

xXSpeedKill

@restimat

I do not agree ... we have a duty to fight for what we defend ... you are defending that we simply accept everything that imposes on us

timilic7

@SpecialOne

HI.

First of all, I would like to keep the coaching points because they represent a lot of time, money and passion invested over the years by many players of which I am part ....

Then it would be enough for the medal ranking to take into account only the open championships at least finished those who are first with 4 closed accounts against the bot ..

That this one does not concern All accounts at least we could continue to play osm duels or high championships while having a chance in the ranking of the medals.

And finally that the defeats are less penalizing because 2 defeats for divisions 9 and 10 lose more medals than a title brings back, which makes the majority of the top ranked players want to play only against the computer, without spending coins, neither in recruitment, nor in training camp, nor in friendly ....
Look at the French top 10 medals for example, 8 or 9 of the first 10 play 4 closed championships against computers .. Few coins spent and we gradually go up to medals with 0 defeats ..

When it comes to divisions, yes we can be division 10 by playing competitions, so am I. But we cannot be top 50 c is impossible .. So what is the use of the ranking if by playing the competitions offered by the game I can't reach the heights there? If there is a classification I would like to have the chance to be well there, I am talking about the classification not of the divisions, by playing my favorite game. Whereas today, we have to play closed championships against the computer to be at the top nationally or globally .....

On a championship of 10 teams without a cup for simplicity, 2 players divisions 10

A player than against the computer: 18 victories, 0 defeats and maximum 30 coins in recruitment spent. Result:
18 wins * 50 or so medals against the computer plus a bonus of 1000 title medals = 1900 medals to win for, I repeat, maximum 30 coins spent.

One player open championship
14 wins
4 losses
14 * 200 medals maximum = 2800 medals
Champion bonus: 1,500 medals
So over 4300 medals. But I lost 4 * 2000 so 8000 medals for my defeats ... I ended up with less-3700 medals !!!!!!!!
And at least 300 coins spent on recruiting, friendships, training camp !!

And I'm not talking about osm duels if I lose 4 out of 10 games .....

It would also be a very good idea that the OSM DUEL do not bring back or lose any medals. That the medals are not awarded for the OSM duels.

So invite the first 150 in the medal ranking to go to the WC, half will refuse because they would lose matches and therefore go down considerably in the world or national ranking.

I hope you read me... I love this game but...